Kevin: We’re going to talk about a topic that is not really talked about very often in real estate Don, I mean it’s something that we talk a lot about closing deals and conversion and lead gen and stuff like that, and you and I were talking on the phone earlier and you’re like no one ever trains people or no one ever learns the proper way to go about CMAs and then comparable listings and determining value for our clients which is a very important aspect as realtors for certain the services that we provide. So Don you’re a realtor, broker, owner, entrepreneur and also an appraiser, so tell us like I’m going to give it away now it’s your show and I’ll be on in the background as always if you have questions feel free to add them in the chat, I’ll make sure Don gets them and then I may jump in and ask some questions in between, so Don take it away my friend.
Don: So yes thank you so much for the opportunity to talk to everybody this morning, I do a lot of appraisal work for court cases, I testify a lot in court and I’m also out selling houses and we are always talking about lead gen and conversion, getting more deals but we’re really forgetting that part of our service is to help the client determine what the least price is for their home, and also when you’re making an offer that you also give your client good advice. And unfortunately when you’re going through most of your licensing and training people don’t tell you about valuations, they really don’t help you on how to properly select comparable, and so I see out there a need in training agents to help them understand valuation and so I’ll like to speak a little bit about that today. So I’m going to give you a little bit of appraisal 101 and Kevin has a test an online test after this, each of the team leaders said if you don’t pass this test that you’ll be finding a new team.
So the first thing we will look at when I look at a house is that one of the most important things is zoning, and there’s a test that appraisers use called the highest and best use HBU, highest and best use of that particular site, that piece of unique land, that unique piece of dirt what is the highest best use that’s going to really determine your value. And so when we’re doing our analysis most people just go look at a tract home or something you’ve built and they don’t even think about ingenuity because it’s pretty much the answer is there, it’s the best use of a single-family home. It’s when you get into properties that are unique, that maybe have a larger lot sizes in typical, maybe are on a street where you see commercial and residential. And so I’m not going to spend too much time on HBU but I want at least go through the four tests, the first one is it physically possible, is it physically possible to build on that lot, is it a swamp land or is on a cliff where you cannot physically build a house, so if it can’t be physically there then it can’t be built on.
The next one I think is the most important that agents should be looking at is is it legally permissible, what’s legally permissible to be built on that lot let me come back to that. The third one is it financially feasible, is the cost of building this so much higher than the actual market value that’s going to cost me five million dollars to build this house and when I’m done with it it’s only worth a million bucks, that says well the highest best use is not to build. And if we remember from those agents who were in the business in 2007, 2008, 2009 that the cost of real estate, the custom of single family homes dropped so far below that would cost you more to build a house than it is to buy a house, so you wouldn’t want to build correct. And the fourth one because it was maximally productive, what is going to get you the highest net return on that site, that investment, and so those are the four tests and I really want to talk about which is legally permissible in zoning, and so when I’m looking at a property I look at say okay what does this property zone for, is it zone for a duplex, is it zone for a commercial, is it zone for single-family right.
What is the minimum lot size, if the minimum lot size to build the requirement for your city zoning is 7,500 square feet and you’ve got a lot that’s 20,000 square feet that’s larger than the minimum requirement, you may have more value because you could subdivide that way and get more money for your client. And I see agents all the time to list a property really low that has a big lot size, they don’t know and some investor comes in scoops it up, buys the house, subdivides it makes it killing at their clients expense because you have a fiduciary responsibility to your seller to give them adequate information and to get the highest possible price for their home. Any questions thus far?
Kevin: No, I think it’s really good we haven’t had any questions yet but I have something and it’s maybe a little premature but one of the things that we deal with all the time is obviously a lot of multiple offers and then our clients are asking us hey what’s the home worth, what do you think It’ll go for that’s like the question of the day right like the question of the years is what’s it going to be worth, what’s it going to go for, so how do we determine what comps to use for that?
Don: Okay that’s a great question and this is a great question I get this asked on the court stand all the time, and we’re going to talk about that what way you should start your search for your comparable and then how to narrow it down to get the best comparable for your CMA. So a lot of times I’m on the stand and an attorney would be looking at two different appraisal reports so they’re trying to argue about value, and they always come to me and say Don isn’t the square footage the most important thing when selecting your comparable, and I’m like no and they go I’ll explain why. And so I want to get through that process, I’m going to actually do a share screen here and see if it shares okay so everyone should share my screen my screen.
So this is an actual appraisal report that I’ve done, you’ll notice that this is obviously going from top to bottom, from the subject to the comparable and then going horizontally is the adjustments that I’m going to make. You’ll see that it starts out with the type of financing, the concessions, time of sale, location whether it’s fee simple or leasehold, sight-size, the condition and then square footage and then obviously goes down to the bottom to garage count pool spa fireplace etc. and so it’s really important that you understand and a lot of times they built automatically two square footage as the most important. But let me ask you this question, if I had a subject that I had one acre lot and had a 2,400 square foot property and I had a comparable that had a 6,000 square foot lot in 2400 square feet and I had another one that was an acre and was 1500 square feet which one would be the more appropriate comp, the lot size is more important because that’s the unique feature, the bigger lot size is more important than square footage because a one acre lot compared to a 5,000 square foot lot you’re really looking at the acreage right, because the acreage is going to drive that number.
In fact if I can bring you anything today, if you’re listening to me anything this is the time to listen ear’s should be open the appraisal form is designed to have the most important items at the top with the least important items at the bottom, let me read that again these form are designed that these items of importance start at the top and the least important items are at the bottom, okay let me explain the first thing is most important is it a cash or cash equivalent sale, was the sale of that property done for a cash or cash equivalents meaning they got a loan, they didn’t barter, they didn’t trade things. I didn’t trade hey I’m going to give you $10,000 cash, I’m going to trade a house I have in the Hamptons and we’re going to do this trade, we want to make sure it’s for cash or cash like tier’s. Also the time of sell is more important, obviously location, lot size, square footages is down in the middle and of course your garage count pools and spas are at the very bottom, they are the least important items when picking your comp selection. So it’s very important when you’re doing your comps that you’re looking at those items, and so I kind of set up a little mock any questions from this part or that part?
Kevin: None so far, so far it’s great stuff.
Don: I know this is not exciting, this is not the sexy part of real estate but it’s important that you understand this because when you go and meet with your buyer/seller it’s important that when you’re explaining the value of what they should offer or what they should list the home for that you understand what is important when you’re pulling your comp selection.
Kevin: Actually, we do have a question done real quick from Joanne Chester a really good question here, when comparing a 7,000 square foot lot versus a 15,000 square foot lot, her home was on a 7,000 square foot lot I can find I couldn’t find were 13,000 sorry okay I don’t understand the question, but I do have a question how do you determine the value of like a bigger lot, like how do you so for a bigger lot or a view, a lot of times in big like in the city in San Francisco or in some other areas there’s properties that are similar and then one has a view and one does not, like how do I know what the value of a few are?
Don: Well that is the million dollar question that everyone always asks and there’s no easy answer, so there’s no such thing as it’s worth this much more that more because each and every market is unique. And let me explain this to you for those of you who know Newport Beach California, that is a very high-end 10 million, 5 million, 40 million dollar market where if you live down there it’s very small lots two thousand square foot, three thousand square foot lot, high-density, no parking because on the beach and there’s literally no parking it’s like we go down and we always play parking karma like parking karma trying to find a spot to go to the beach, and so if you live down there and you’re paying eight million dollars or ten million dollars for a house you drive a Ferrari and you’re looking at a house and then one jas got a two-car garage and one has got a three-car garage, how much more are you going to pay for that garage are you going to pay $5,000, well hell yes my car cost $250,000 right I don’t want it sitting out there in the ocean air and the sun and people riding around their bikes.
So that particular garage may be worth $250,000, in fact there was a sale of a parking space that just went down in New York Manhattan, I think it was like six million dollars for a parking space not a garage a parking space. Now you take that same exact analogy you go up to where I live in the Inland Empire, where home prices are $500,000 and you’re looking at a two-car garage versus a three-car garage, how much are they going to pay for that additional parking space? Are they going to pay $250,000 for that no it’s half the price of the house. And then you go up to the high desert where home properties are $100,000, so the first thing you have to do is say what price range are my in, what price market am I in, how much does it cost, how much would it cost.
And then by looking at the data as an appraiser, as an agent, as a trained professional you can look at the data and measure what’s called by refresh analysis and so actually in our appraisal reports when we’re looking I’m actually running and this is very complex and detailed, I’m actually running regression analysis this will actually plot the data and tell me that the price per square foot difference is between fifty and seventy three dollars, and that the lot size is different between three and eight. So I’m running regression analysis along with my experience to help me determine on what adjustments I should be making in the marketplace. So it’s a very complex question and that’s why appraisals are such a unique art and a science.
Kevin: So here’s another question what if this is something that we run across a lot as well, is not having any comps like I have a fifteen hundred square foot house 2-bedroom 1-bath or whatever and there’s no other comps there’s nothing around that’s even close to that.
Don: So let me circle back and let me show you this little bit of analogy and then I’m going to circle back to answer that question. So this is the property upland where I just pulled the property profile on the tax records, it shows me it’s a two thousand four hundred thirty one square foot home, with a five thousand 888 square foot plot built in 1982. So I know that information I have and then I’m going to go and do greater search just like I was going to do at CMA. So I can literally go into MLS my MLS correct and I’m going to go and do a search, and I’m going to say I want active under contract penny close comps usually I want to stay in six months, but if I don’t have any comps Kevin I can go back as 12 months and sometimes I’ll go back two years to look at that, and then I can figure out what market values are doing.
Sometimes I want to know what’s else and what hasn’t sold right because I could go to my client and said look here’s what they price that and it did not sell so we want to go that price here’s two comps that did not sell. So sometimes telling my clients what hasn’t sold it’s just important telling them what’s on the market, because they all want to look at least price but least price they haven’t sold, so I want to look at penny, closed and canceled obviously I want like life like, I want a single-family residence right and I want to try to stay within plus or minus 15 or 20 percent of GLA.
Kevin: What’s GLA?
Don: Gross living area. So one time I had a client call me up and say why are you calling my house gross, you putting gross my house is not gross, I know it’s the total sizes you dummy.
Kevin: So when you say gross living area are you talking about like, you’re not talking about living space you’re talking about the lot size, you’re talking about the garage?
Don: No, gross living area is defined as above-ground living area, does not include the garage, definitely does not include a detached Casella or detached guest house that’s done separately.
Kevin: Okay, so you’re talking about the actual square footage that’s listed on the MLS or the tax record?
Don: Right, but you got to be careful because if you do have a house with a guest house, a detached guest house, some agents will combine it and put it in MLS and say the home is 3,000 square feet and has a 2,000 per foot mean house and a thousand when you have something unique you got to expand your search and then look at. So let’s go 2,000 square feet and let’s say we’re going to go up to 2,800 square feet right someone say I’m going to pull homes up that size and that size, and then I’m just going to go into my city which is the City of Oakland right and I’m going to go ahead and do a map search, and I can type in my property address here which will pinpoint that property. So now I can zoom out and I say okay I want home to that size and let’s say I grab this grid and I just grab it and draw a map and see how if you give me all the data in this particular neighborhood, and I pull up this data and it gives me 39 recent comps which then I can narrow down.
So the good thing is you get anywhere from fifteen maybe like 40 which is on the high side down, you should have enough data if they’re similar and I hit this and I said okay here’s all my data. I’ve got 39 data points now I got to figure out which ones are the best ones because it gives me a big range, and the problem with a lot of times as agents, as an appraiser I go out to the house and they bring me this, everything, here’s all the data and I’m like you don’t know your job, you suck. You suck as an agent because you don’t know your property, you don’t know your data and you bring me this and I can tell you that you’re not good at your job.
Kevin: Don real quick this leads me to a really important question as well, again like based on what you’re saying when we’re dealing with multiple offers a lot of times where people are submitting offers without appraisal contingencies I mean they’re going through the steps and explain to the clients the consequences but great question, so what do we provide to an appraiser and I don’t want to digress you but I want to get this in because…
Don: I’ll circle back to that, I’ll finish with that you’ve got 10 minutes. So just anyone can look at this data and tell me some issues or problems real quick, can anyone just throw out a few points and say hey I see some problems in here I wouldn’t use this one I wouldn’t use that one.
Kevin: Anyone jump in guys.
Don: Take a shot with this.
Kevin: What I should see on this red arrow somebody said…
Don: That’s true, a lot of price drops.
Kevin: Really that’s good one.
Don: What else?
Kevin: What else do you guys see on here, year bill?
Don: So year bill perfect, so that’s a good one so my home was built in 1882 and I’ve got comps that are built in 2017 and then I got another comp in here that’s built in 1947 how is that comparable to my house right, so let’s go ahead and then narrow that down. We say okay we want homes that are built between 1975 and maybe 1890 and then rerun it, so now we’ve got 31 comps so now that’s going to tighten up our range, what’s the next problem?
Kevin: All right what else do we see out there, number of beds and baths thanks Stacy, thanks Jamie, and thanks Zechariah.
Don: Yes I still want a few of what that is and I don’t want to narrow it down yet, I probably look next lot size?
Kevin: Lot size, somebody else said lot size, beds, baths.
Don: So I’ve got lot sizes here that are 17,000 square feet, I got a lot sizes here at 57, so my subject has a lot size of 5088 so let’s narrow it down to that let’s go down to say we want lot sizes between three thousand square feet and eight thousand square feet and rerun it now and now we’re down to ten. So now we’ve got some good comps and we’ve actually got three that sold our subjects, three, so now when I’m meeting with the client I can go through them and see all these are standard sales and not audios and not short sells. I’ve got comps that are similar in size because my home’s a model match, and then I’ve got comps of bracket in a similar lot size and now when I sit down with my client saying what should we price it at right, I can go through these photos and say well here’s how your photo looks like, this is what your back yard looks like, this one’s got beautiful blue coloring and go through all the data to go through it with my client to determine what their prices.
So why is this home selling for 580 and it’s small and then here’s one for 550 that hasn’t sold why, so that’s a good question there’s a model match. So again agent to crappy photos if this is what it looks like inside so you can see it’s not upgraded, it’s not staged it doesn’t look really good I don’t know somebody who’s taking Quaaludes when they design the shower and compared to this one that is the same exact model that sold for 580, so better photos you can see, doesn’t look that much better. But to be honest with you I think that again to agent did a better job on photos and presentation and drove the traffic and that’s how you bring value, you say look Mr. and Mrs. Seller can you see the difference between this one that sold for 580, the agent didn’t do a very good job on presentation in fact this house has been on the market for 100 whatever how many days and then infer that say hey here at the Markarian group in real estate we use a professional photographer, we do great brochures and drive as many possible qualified buyers to your home, to get the highest possible price from them. Do you see the importance of that Mr. and Mrs. Seller?
You can you also see Mr. and Mrs. Seller that this particular person put this house on the market and they started at a price now I know you want to list at 620 but let’s look at this property, they’ve listed this property Mr. and Mrs. Seller for 598 and now they’ve dropped to 593 or drop in their value and they still haven’t sold anything on the market. So I know you want to go six hundred ten thousand dollars but we’re probably going to be overpriced and we’re going to be competing and chasing these people down, so let’s pricing somewhere that’s going to be a compelling reason to sell your home, do you understand the importance of that Mr. and Mrs. Seller? You see how I’m using the data to help because I’ll tell you what I made a mistake, I lost a listing in Diamond Bar, I listed a house and it did not sell and I’ll tell you why I screwed up that, you want to know?
Don: I did not get the right list price out of the gate, I let them dictate the list price to me because I wanted to get the listings, I wanted to get the listing and I should have got it at a lower price, I should have not allowed them to let me list at a high price because that sat on the market, we didn’t get any offers and they got frustrated with me and felt I was not doing my job which we were, we’re doing open houses and marketing and dealers the stuff that an agent does but we’re overpriced and they don’t want to hear it from me. So sometimes being the first agent to get the high listing price it sucks, I’d rather be the second agent who goes in there after they inspired to listen or cancel with that agent to get them to list at the right price. And so I made a mistake because I didn’t have the balls to go in there tell them the true price because I want to get the listing.
Kevin: So on this done that’s really great information, like very valuable and a lot of agents make those mistakes and it’s good to hear that. A couple quick questions, we have run out of time and I want to get these questions in some people have asked, so going back to some of the things we’re talking about earlier, what if there are no comps what do you do? A lot of times we have that situations there’s no comp, other comp we can’t find it so what do you do, do we go back and date, do we go extend the search like in terms of the parameters, what’s the best thing to do in that situation of no comps?
Don: Yes you do a couple things, if it’s really confident well you got to widen your net, you got a throw up cast a larger net, so you’re going to go back in time you might go back to here, you might go back two years anything you might go out half a mile, two miles, three miles and so like if you have it you really unique property. Let’s say you have something that is a horse properties, an equestrian property it’s located on a five acre property, what is the driving force to that buyer, what is that property going to appeal to it’s going to be no horse version right, it’s got a horse bill so now I got to go and say okay let me expand my search out because my buyers going to be a horse person where people buying horse properties.
And I had to go out and expand my search right for time and in distance and then I’ve got to go and then find horse-like properties and then and then infer now one neighborhood is superior than the other I got to make Justin’s down, and so I’ll look and say well what is the actual neighbors values, what is my property and then expand search. But if you have a property that’s called a white elephant and it’s way over built for the neighborhood or really unique, there’s a thing called the principle regression and it says that a property’s value will trend with the neighborhood value. So if your average property is 288 dollars per square foot and you come in at 400 dollars per square foot it’s going to start pulling back because people want to live next to people like themselves.
Kevin: That’s a really good, I just posted your comment there a property’s value will trend with a neighborhood’s value that’s great stuff. Okay so what about unpermitted work, so in different areas there’s like in San Francisco for example and some other areas even in Southern California where you’re located there are properties that have unpermitted space and some places have that more often than others, so how do you determine the value of a place that’s got let’s say as an example decent quality workmanship, a bathroom let’s say and it’s done without a permit, so how do you determine the value of that?
Don: That’s a great question, it’s a very dangerous environment when we’re working with that for agents and appraisers, unpermitted additions are probably one of the biggest lawsuit areas for both agents and appraisers, in fact there’s a big lawsuit in Malibu where the agent lied about the square footage on that, I have got 10 million dollar, 20 million dollar house and it ended up going to the California State Supreme Court and it basically changed our fiduciary responsibilities for brokers and so it’s very important. So the first thing is that you need to check with your city without giving the address of the property, you need to know if that city do they require a city inspection at a transfer, and the reason why some cities do inspections and if there’s unpermitted they may make bring them to cut it or tear them down right, so that’s number one does a city required inspection and what is their policy in unpermitted mission so that’s number one.
Number two is the addition is it done in a workmanlike manner and does it conform and overall quality design and appeal to the marketplace, so if you have a house that has a very good addition done or garage conversion done it is the quality consistent with the property and is the design and the Philippines system, if so and your city’s not going to come out expecting to tear it down the question you have to ask yourself is a buyer someone willing to give some value to this addition. If the house next door is the same exact model and you have this unpermitted addition would they give it value and you say yes they’re probably not going to give the same dollar for dollar per square foot, it’s probably going to be something less than, and so when you do is you have to disclose it obviously to your potential buyers, you may put in MLS subject has as an addition for the buyer to conduct their internal investigations. And then you can give it some value but I wouldn’t give it for dollar for dollar, so if your neighborhood is selling $200 per square foot and the addition is 400 square feet I wouldn’t give it full value I will give it something maybe 50%-75%.
Kevin: Okay, so about 50% to 75% and that’s the quality of workmanship?
Kevin: So if it’s like they’re down then you’re probably going to give it less value right?
Don: Yes, and as appraiser we’re doing it as is report not a hypothetical this is very complex. So I have to give it value but a lot of lenders don’t like it but as an appraiser I have to do give it value.
Kevin: Okay, and then last question before we go and this is one that we touched on earlier is multiple offer situation, you touched on it a little bit with like agents bringing in a long list of comps to an appraiser what should if at all what should an agent bring to an appraiser during an appraisal inspection and should they do it and what should we watch out for legality wise and stuff like that.
Don: Well number one I think there’s a misconception that they can’t talk to the appraiser that’s not true, do the new laws that they can’t talk directly to the mortgage lender or anybody who has a directive processor or anybody who’s a direct situation with the lender. In fact the real estate agents are my best source of information, they are going to know more sometimes about a property in the neighborhood than I do and I’m relying on those agents who are intelligent and who know their market areas to give me information. In fact when I do an appraisal I’m required by this map to directly verify the transaction, have you ever received a phone call from an appraiser hey you sold this property four months ago can I ask you a few questions about it, it’s because that appraiser is supposed to do that.
Okay number one so I would like you to bring me a current list of any recent upgrades, any recent upgrades, remodeling here’s what’s happened in the property. Also if there’s any HOA dues, any common areas anything like that I’d like to know right, and also you can bring me comps and sometimes I’ll bring the appraisers comps and I’d like to know hey this home had this issue or this home had that issue don’t tell me how to do my job, but bring me relevant content to make my job easier. I also bring them the zoning but you may not be good enough or qualified enough to bring them the zoning but I do because I find out a lot of appraisers do not know or put the adequate zoning in there. If you do have an addition and it’s permitted absolutely bring a copy of the permits.
I will love you, you will make my job happy and when you call and bring me my stuff and my permits and say here’s a complete package, here’s my business card, here’s a copy of the five offers we’ve received the top sheet you see how many multiple offers, here’s a copy of the permit, here’s a copy of upgrades I will love you, you made my job easier doesn’t mean your value is going to come in though because you are not my client nor is your buyer my client. My client is the lender, the mortgage lender also that the definition of market value is the most probable value and not the highest possible value meaning that I could care less I’m going to be most probable because we’re not here because you decided that you love this property and have to have it and fill the paperwork.
Kevin: Yes, that’s really good info there as well, that’s really good info I’m posting it here I hope you guys all copy and paste what I just posted and remember what Don just said because it’s really important especially when we’re dealing with appraisers we want to provide them with the information not tell them how to do their jobs.
Don: If you want to piss me off that’s a great way for you not to be proud.
Kevin: Real quick and then we’ll end it, what should we never ever do with an appraiser like that will completely turn you off, piss you off like if there’s one thing you can think of and if you can that’s okay but what should we not do, what are some things that agents should not do?
Don: Well number one you don’t want to tell me that appraisers are, they have much more training typically than an agent, much more licensing requirements, is to tell me that I don’t know my job or I’m stupid or appraisers are dumb in general and they honestly will tell you that, they’ll come out and tell well I have been selling properties here in this lot and I’ve been doing this and I’ve met this man and you can’t tell me and they don’t understand the guidelines that I have to hear to the bank. They don’t understand that I have to meet this certain criteria, they don’t also understand I’m only getting paid 400 bucks or 450 bucks to do this report, and if I go super high but the underwriters the review page is going to beat me up and then they are going to want all this additional extra work and I don’t get paid an additional penny.
So a lot of times these appraisers are getting paid peanuts and then you’re making fifty times more than they’re making number one, and number two is that they don’t get paid any more money to bring your value up some ridiculously high price. So when you meet with them be on time, treat them with respect, provide them with the data and smile, if I have that with my data and my information I’m not sitting around waiting for you 15-20 minutes to show up I’m going to be much happier when I’m looking at your report. Now it shouldn’t be that way, but I can just tell you when I walk out of there I’m like I can you walk out there with a happy face, I can walk out and go that agent was an asshole.
Kevin: Yes, so just be courteous, be nice and at the end of the day we’re all human. One last question here when do you write up a problem for the condition of the property, are you looking for things wrong?
Don: Well that’s a complex question because am I doing the FHA appraisal, am I doing a BA appraisal, am I doing a conventional loan appraisal or jumbo, different secondary FHA has different guidelines lines than conventional but I’m always looking in California for earthquake brackets on the hot water tank, smoke detectors, carbon monoxide detectors, smoke detector every bedroom, smoke detector in the hallway of every living area and one carbon monoxide detector in the state of California, but also if there’s any items of any construction going on the property, any tore out, any roof leaks anything that empty swimming pools, anything like that I’m looking for that the lender is going to probably want me to know, but I’m noting I’m a little bit more aggressive than the average bear and I write up a little bit more things on condition because I want to see why only my home but and make sure that I cover and I don’t get sued.
Kevin: Got it, man this was really good info we didn’t even get into VA or FHA that’s like something we should do on another call, I feel that each subject alone, each aspect like VA versus FHA that those two separate items can be an hour conversation, so man this is really good stuff Don thank you so much. Anyone have any other questions guys before we end it for Don this is such an awesome call so much good info, I know Kristin said I wish he did you answered it all, sergeant baby Sonique. All right so Don thanks so much buddy.
Don: Thank you I hope this is valuable and I hope that when you’re doing your comp selection that this will help out and most importantly most importantly you are fiduciary to your clients, make sure that you do a great job for your client, if you do your business will grow so always remember client first.
Kevin: Honestly, thanks buddy thanks guys do have a great weekend, take care.